Rod Ammon: Welcome to the CFITrainer.net podcast. 2025 is well under way and the IAAI'S International Training Conference is coming up soon. Today we have an exclusive preview of this premier training and networking event. The 76th annual IAAI ITC is April 6th through the 11th, 2025 in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Registration is open now at IAAIITC.com. IAAI President Trace Lawless is with us today to give you an inside look at this year's IAAI ITC. Trace Lawless is the current president of the IAAI, a past member of the IAAI board of directors, and a past president of the Ohio Chapter of the IAAI. He is an IAAI CFI and an IAAI ECT. He joined Grinnell Mutual Reinsurance Company in 2024 after a thirty-year career in the public sector. He has more than 43 years of experience in the fire service, law enforcement, and fire and explosion investigations. Welcome Trace. We're grateful you're here.

Trace Lawless: Well, thank you, Rod. It's a pleasure to always connect with CFITrainer podcast and put out information about the upcoming international training conference.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, this looks to be pretty cool. First of all, it's sort of nice for me, it's a little more local and it looks like you've packed more content and more opportunities for people in there. So let's talk about this. What's one of the best things about ITC? It's six days. I guess the best thing is that it's six days packed with a wide range of classes. Can you highlight for us a few of the classes attendees will have the opportunity to take this year?

Trace Lawless: Absolutely, yes. A few changes with the conference this year is we're always keeping a close eye on how large the ballrooms get at the conference. We work off of a theory, at least, that the larger the ballroom sometimes people feel left out and things of that nature during the presentations, and so we added another ballroom this year. So we went from two large ballrooms to three large ballrooms throughout the whole week. On Monday, on the seventh there, we kick everything off with our opening ceremony and then general session on that afternoon. We're bringing Nick Carey over from the UK to start all that off with collecting electrical and other data undertaking journey, full furnished compartment fires. It's a research project Nick has worked on for a number of years and look to highlight that to kick off the conference. That afternoon, Dennis Toomey and Todd Swent will be doing some data analysis training for fire investigators on using advanced analytics and generative artificial intelligence. So definitely looking forward to that class to kick the conference off, also

Rod Ammon: There's something else that I wanted to mention I was thinking about while I was preparing this morning, and that is the opening ceremony and how important I think that is to a lot of people. Just to remember what you as investigators and all the law enforcement and legal experts and all the different folks that are at the conference, how much they get to celebrate they're part of this country. The opening ceremonies with sometimes bagpipes, all kinds of things that just make you feel good, it's a fulfilling experience and I think it's one of the nicest things about kicking off the ITC. We also get to memorialize. I'm not sure whether that'll be at the opening ceremonies or later on at one of the other events, but we also get to memorialize those that we lost from the IAAI in the past year.

Trace Lawless: The memorial service will be at the opening ceremony, as always. That's an opportunity for all of us within the industry and profession to reflect over the years that people have given not only to this organization, but to the fire investigation professions throughout the world. Along with that, this year I'm pleased to announce, first time that I've known that the international has done this, is we're going to recognize all of our new CFIs at the opening ceremony this year. So we'll have scrolling a roll call of names who have accomplished that goal throughout the last year along with having them all stand during the opening ceremony, be recognized and congratulated for the accomplishments within the professions.

Rod Ammon: That sounds like a great addition. I love to hear that, and I'm sure the people who worked hard to become CFIs are going to really appreciate that. I noticed that the schedule also includes multiple sessions of the IAAI's expert witness courtroom testimony, which I know sells out every time that the IAAI offers it, but I don't think the IAAI has ever offered it like this at ITC. You talk about how EWCT is being delivered this year.

Trace Lawless: Yes. Actually, last year in Vegas at our 75th anniversary, we beta tested expert witness courtroom testimony at ITC for a very limited number of participants. It was such a hit and, as you said, it always fills up. It's a much needed class out in the industry and one of the stepping stone prerequisite courses for the certified fire investigator. So with this year working with Vice President David Bridges and the training and education committee, we are able to build into the schedule opportunity for 24 students to enroll specifically into the expert witness courtroom testimony course, which will be offered throughout the entire week. So they'll get the lecture portion, the practical portions, and the moot courtroom opportunity to testify, having direct examinations and cross examinations all within that week in a moot courtroom. So we expanded it. It's a great opportunity to further the education and opportunity for our participants.

Rod Ammon: I've heard for years, and it always surprises me that most fire investigators have often not had a chance to testify in a real courtroom. So that's a big deal to be able to have that pressure put on you and to be able, even though you're surrounded by your peers, but you've got real people in there that have done the job helping you walk through what it's like to be in a courtroom and to prepare yourself for that, which, of course, is going to only make their case better or the case that they're supporting better. You also mentioned David Bridges, and I should say Vice President David Bridges, and recognized his work, which I think is important that we do. And also let people know he was going to be here this morning, but this legal world that he's in can be quite challenging, and, of course, a 9:00 am deposition, or whatever that was this morning, kept him from joining us. So ITC is also offering fundamentals, again. Fundamentals, for people who don't know, is a 40-hour fire investigation foundational training class. Who's that class for and why should people come to the ITC to take it?

Trace Lawless: Well, the opportunity for fundamentals at ITC, Rod, is further reaching than an independent course held in your local department or even at your local chapter. During that week of the fundamentals going on, yes, you'll get the educational component from leading instructors within the industry, but we have the opportunity, since we're all gathered in one location, to bring in different instructors and subject matter areas such as electrical, mechanical, legal, photography, and let those people instruct that portion of the class along with the opportunities. It breaks hospitality time in the evenings outside of the normal class hours for these students to interact with peers within the profession to further their knowledge, to talk about different situations, learn from others there. So the opportunity to speak with others and to outreach to people you don't even know around the world during that fundamentals course adds another component to it to expand that individual training portion. This is a course that is available to anyone who wants to step in there and take that course for the entire week. No pre-registration is required on this course. So if you're new in the industry, you're looking to take that first step to become a fire investigation technician, what we refer to as our FIT program, this is one of the prerequisite courses for that. Along with if you've been in the industry a long time and just want to refresh on base knowledge, step into that classroom, take that course for the week, or just step in for one single opportunity or module of it and refresh your knowledge. It's always a new learning experience when you have different instructors come in and present different techniques to accomplish the same goals.

Rod Ammon: Yeah. Speaking of instructors, there's a nice addition this year. I think it's been done before, but I'm not sure, but I know it's being done this year, and that's the certified instructor program. Can you tell us about that and about the IAAI CI credential program that people can earn?

Trace Lawless: Yes, absolutely. Co-chair of training, Chris Ellis, who is a NFPA 1041 instructor, has worked on this program for a number of years now in modifying the program from the 1041 complete program down to what the international needs to meet the minimum requirements for the international certified investigator credential. This will be the first time this is offered at the ITC and it's a three-day course to learn about techniques of putting together programs, presenting to an adult audience, interacting with adults on many different levels. So Chris has spent a lot of time putting this program together to tailor it to the IAAI needs and really looking forward to putting this class out at ITC to assist people in developing educational programs and instructing in educational programs at that adult level.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, I think it's really important. I mean, there are so many top experts in the IAAI, but a lot of those experts don't get the opportunity to become an instructor, and then later on they'd like to. They're trying to pass it on. So I see this as a great opportunity to learn, "Hey, what is it I need to do differently when I present? How do I take this information and pass it on to others?" So again, that's the certified instructor program, and you can get the IAAI CI credential for completing that program. You've added some amenities this year for attendees that come with the registration fee. Can you elaborate on some of that?

Trace Lawless: Yeah, we're always looking at the international and the setup from the site selection and training side of the conference is to give back to our participants and make it more of an experience. Several years ago past President Watson said we need to turn ITC not only into an educational opportunity but also an experience a person goes back to their home location and talks about and shares with their peers. That's how we further the educational component. Part of the amenities this year, included in the registration, is lunch provided three days during the week as part of the conference registration. That will be on Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Of course, Tuesday evening is always our awards banquet where we recognize all the award recipients. That's also the installation of the new IAAI board of directors and executive members. Sunday afternoon during registration will also be the welcoming reception. We formally called this the president's reception, but change that name to welcoming reception. That's to welcome everybody to the conference during that check-in period there on Sunday afternoon. And we'll have some light hors d'oeuvres, appetizers, couple of refreshments stations around, so please join us during that check-in period to interact and communicate with other members. Additionally to that, on Wednesday evening, we're going to start about 7:00 at the atrium pool area. In conjunction with the New Jersey chapter of the IAAI and the IAAI Foundation, we will have a hospitality night that'll go from around 7:00 pm to 10:00 pm in the atrium pool area. Well, first, let me clarify, no swimming permitted. We're using, actually, the atrium pool area for the hospitality where, once again, we'll have some light snacks out there, some cash bars, and some additional entertainment with a DJ. And during that event, the IAAI Foundation will also host their live auction, which I just received over the weekend, some of the information on the items that they'll be auctioning off during the live auction. So I welcome everybody there. Great opportunity, some very unique items being auctioned off during that event. And, once again, just another opportunity for people together, interact with each other, and at the same time learn from each other and meet people from around the world.

Rod Ammon: You bring up a couple of points that I feel are really important to people who are coming to ITC for the first time, and that is that, as you said, it used to be called the president's gathering. I'm forgetting. But now it's-

Trace Lawless: The reception.

Rod Ammon: Yeah, reception. Thank you. Now it's the welcome reception. And I think it's important that people know that you all take time to talk about how to make people feel more welcome. So there's board members, there's volunteers, there's people that are walking around in that room that are looking for folks that have never been to ITC, and I got to tell you, I've gone to a lot of conferences where nobody knew me, and it's really nice when somebody walks up in a nice laid-back way and says, "Hey, where are you from? What are you doing? Who do you want to meet? What are the things you'd like to see? Anything I can help you with?" So I think that's just a great way to kick off. The other thing is this lunches, it doesn't sound like a big deal when you say it, but when you think about it, if you go to a lot of conferences, like I have, very often lunch isn't provided and off scrambles everybody at quarter to 12:00 or 12:00 and they start running for parts of the town to go try to get a quick lunch. And, really, you're spending more time trying to find a place to eat instead of being able to just walk out of the classroom and get together with all these folks from around the world that you could have a nice lunch with and have a conversation. So sounds like real good changes and glad to hear about all of them. Tell me a little bit more about the guest program.

Trace Lawless: The guest program is a very active group within the IAAI and the International Training Conference. We have volunteers that put together a full week of opportunity within the host location to travel out to see the countryside, to see opportunities, historical monuments, things of that nature during that week. This year I know that they're traveling out to Philly one day, into actual Philadelphia, where they're going to have a tour of Philadelphia, some wine tasting. It's an opportunity for guests of participants at the conference to once again interact with each other, meet each other, build lifelong friendships in a lot of situations, and to go out and spend some time not just sitting around a hotel room or sitting within the hotel itself, but to take the opportunity to travel with their spouse or their guest and go out and see the area of which the international conference is at. In addition to that, I know they've got planned to go down to Cape May for a day and spend the time at Cape May and see that beautiful town. Along with that, anybody who registers into the guest program also gets a banquet ticket to Tuesday night to attend the banquet and to also interact with members of the international and the fire investigation community.

Rod Ammon: It's awesome. I live near this area, so it's a little bit more personal to me, and when I hear the places that you're talking about where people get to go, that should be a real motivator for someone who wants to bring a guest or is trying to convince, in my case, it would've been convincing my spouse, "Hey, you know what? You get to go on a walking tour in Philly." She'd be like, "Wow, I might do that," and loves Cape May. And then I guess there's also a trip over to the wind farm, which should always be interesting to take a look and see what's going on there. So all really good. Trying to think of anything else that you'd like to highlight about this year.

Trace Lawless: Well, I think if we take the opportunity, Rod, to just go a little bit deeper into the schedule, we're offering an opportunity from the committee for NFPA 1321, which is the newest NFPA out there related to fire and explosion investigations for fire investigation units. Past President Randy Watson and membership chair, along with involved highly in training and education, Dixon Robin, will be presenting that course. Just giving everybody a good insight on what NFPA 1321 really is, answer questions. Both of these presenters are members of the 1321 committee. We know there's a lot of rumors out there. We know there's a lot of misconceptions as normal in the fire and explosion profession. We hear things, we have people's opinion on things, but these two are there for that presentation time, one to explain that new document in its entirety, along with answering questions from their perspective of what this document would do for us in the fire and explosion profession moving forward. So that's one, I think, that's very important. I can see that class being filled fairly quickly there when it occurs on Wednesday. Along with that, this year, we've got a lot of international speakers, and I'd really like to highlight that is we have a lot of research and technology happening off continent. We see this as an opportunity in Atlantic City to bring these people in from around the world to educate us on what's happening in other parts of the world. So really looking forward to that. Take the opportunity to go to firearson.com, look at the complete schedule that's up there. As you indicated earlier, Rod, it's a very packed schedule. Don't let that overwhelm you. Feel free to look through it and pick out what you'd like to attend for that entire week and join us up in Atlantic City. It will be a very educational and great event for everyone involved.

Rod Ammon: So Trace, I know you have been going to ITC for many years. Can you tell me what you value the most?

Trace Lawless: First thing that comes to mind, Rod, is the connections I've made throughout the world and the relationships, not only have I built on a professional level, but on a personal level. When you get into different situations and you're thinking about things related to a fire explosion scene, things you hadn't seen before, there's always somebody in mind that you can reach out to, whether that's here in the continental US or anywhere in the world. And from the IAAI perspective, is to expand the profession internationally and throughout every state and every community of the United States through this conference and meeting someone, whether it's our first time there and they're saying, "Hey, I wanted to attend to see what I can take back to my local community." That's where we reach out to them and say, "Hey, let us help you get the education component there. Let us help you with situations you may run into." So those friendships and professional relationships, I believe, last for years and years and is the most important thing from the IAAI ITC.

Rod Ammon: I think you're right. I've personally experienced it and it's been a really fulfilling time. I want to give you an opportunity to do an elevator message, like that one minute quick sell it. Sell the ITC to some of these people who are on the fence, who are thinking, "Yeah, well, I got one thing going on that week, but maybe I could move it," and "Yeah, it's a little bit more money," but tell them why they need to go. Because I think, for a lot of people, until they do it, they don't realize the incredible value.

Trace Lawless: Sure. For everyone out there who's listening to this podcast, let me take a moment to explain the value of the International Training Conference. This is an opportunity for a week of joining members from around the world of the International Association of Arson Investigators. During this week, you'll have the opportunity to meet people from around the world, interact with them in professional education classrooms, along with opportunity to share time speaking about different activities, whether it's at a personal level or a professional level throughout the week. For those of you who've never been to an international training conference, this is the opportunity in Atlantic City for a lot of our membership and a lot of the people interested in getting involved in the fire and explosion industry to drive locally within the East Coast of the United States and have the opportunity to take advantage of over 32 hours of tested educational training throughout the week. Throughout this week, there's an opportunity, also, to take a fundamentals course, a certified investigators course, or to attend a wide spectrum of subject matter expert courses ranging from solar energy to AI, to scientific testing and testing of hypotheses during your cases. We have a large group of international instruction along with our local representatives from state, federal, and local authorities. If you have the time to reach out for this week and further your knowledge and career in the fire investigation profession, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for most to spend a week educating yourself and also interacting with peers within the industry that you'll know forever and are always there to lend you a helping hand during any situation you may find yourself in. With that, I'd like to thank everyone for the opportunity to speak to you today through this podcast and look forward to seeing everyone at the International Training Conference April 6th through the 11th in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Rod Ammon: Well said, Trace, and you brought up a couple of real good topics that I think are real interesting, including the AI piece and the energy pieces. So thanks so much for bringing us the taste of what's up at ITC this year. We appreciate your time.

Trace Lawless: Thank you, Rod, and look forward to seeing everyone here in a few weeks there in Atlantic City at Harrah's Convention Center.

Rod Ammon: Trace, thanks so much for bringing us a taste of what's at the IAAI ITC. The IAAI ITC is your best opportunity to obtain the training that helps keep you current with NFPA 1033's continuing education requirements. The full class schedule, guest program details, hotel information, and online registration are available at IAAIITC.com. Just to note that the deadline for booking the room block for the host hotel is March 10th, so keep that in mind when you register. Hope we see you all there. 2025 began with the debut of a brand new IAAI website at firearson.com. The new modern site features a bold design, streamlined navigation, a home page of quick highlights of IAAI activities, news, training, and member benefits. There's easy registration for training classes and industry-leading integration with IAAI's Association Management System and CFITrainer.net. Logged in IAAI members enjoy quick access to their member portal, training class registration, and CFITrainer.net professional development record. If you haven't yet been to the new firearson.com, we encourage you to check it out. This podcast and CFITrainer.net are made possible by funding from a fire prevention and safety grant from the Assistance to Firefighters grant program administered by FEMA and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Also, there's support from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and voluntary online donations from CFITrainer.net users and podcast listeners. Thanks for joining us today on the podcast. Stay safe and we'll see you next month. For the IAAI and CFITrainer.net, I'm Rod Ammon.

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